First Person Meets…Aaron Momin: Empathy is a super power

Matt Egan

Hello, hello, hello, welcome to First Person, the show where we meet the most interesting people in it and learn from them what makes them tick by focusing only on their firsts.

I'm your host, Matt Egan, asking you to enjoy, like and subscribe wherever you find us, and if you are an interesting person in it, let us know you might be the next first person. The next voice you hear will be today's guest. He is Aaron Momin.

Aaron describes himself as a seasoned cyber security and cyber risk professional, and he has more than 30 years of experience in managing cyber and technology risk.

Therefore Aaron is definitely one of the most interesting people in it, and we're delighted to have him as a guest on first person So Aaron, welcome and first up, what's the first thing people should know about you? Aaron Momin

Well, first of all, yeah, thank you so much for having me on this show. Really appreciate it. I'm really excited about this conversation. I would say, you know, I think you know my traits are that I am very empathetic, and I treat others with a lot of respect.

And I've noticed that in my career, when you, when you when you treat people with respect, you know, you get that back in return. So I think, you know, just understanding where people are coming from, everybody has different perspectives in terms of how to think about things.

And you know, I've learned that we have to appreciate whether you agree with them or not, that you have to appreciate where they're coming from. And I think, you know, I think I've done that really well. And to me, just comes naturally.

But I think, you know, I think that, you know, a lot of times when we're so immersed in execution, we might tend to forget that, right, and lose focus. But I think, you know, in my opinion, I do that really well.

The other thing I'll say is that, you know, I'm very energetic. I'm a high performer. I love to work on, you know, multiple different threads at the same time.

And in that, I appreciate, I really appreciate, you know, working with different types of people with different personalities, and I think, I think that goes a long way. Yeah, Matt Egan amazing.

Lots to unpick there, actually. Aaron, thank you. Thank you for giving us that, that open answer to that question. I mean, I think we speak to a lot of leaders with very successful people, and that empathy is a superpower, right?

Understanding that not everybody is coming from the same angle, and being able to being able to shape your approach, with colleagues, with peers, with people who work for you to help them achieve their best is like a real kind of superpower, and something that I think is sometimes missed with high performance people right, who just presume that everybody else wants to operate in the same way?

Well, actually, that we all operate that way every day, because we don't right. We're human beings. We have our ups and downs.

But I'm really excited, even more excited to have this conversation now, because that sets us up really nicely to go into our first section, which we call First things first.

And this is where Aaron, we want to get to know about you by understanding some of your first times. So please, could you tell us about your first job in this industry? Aaron Momin Yeah, absolutely.

Well, I started on this journey about 30 years ago, and I was always interested in it and security, and my first role was really around doing a lot of network and network security troubleshooting and integration and deployment.

And so, you know, that was my first sort of foray, you know, coming out of school, you know, at that time, it was a company called Coopers and Lybrand, you know, which hadn't officially merged with Pricewaterhouse, which is not today, known as PwC, but before it was the legacy organization, and, you know, just just being part of that group, you know, getting different exposures, you know, really getting technical hands on experience.

I think that was my first introduction to working in IT and IT security. That was, you know, that was pretty exciting. Matt Egan

So you, first of all, you came out of school, what were you? What were you studying in college? If not mom, yeah, Aaron Momin

yeah, absolutely, it was computer information systems, right? Not to completely geek out, but that's always been interested in, you know, IT and security.

And they certainly went, went to school for that, you know, had had a thesis around, around computer information systems and how to set up different labs and so on.

So it was, it was, it was really exciting to work at, at Coopers, and just having that hands on, you know, troubleshooting and configuration and kind of setup type experience was, was was was really exciting to really get me immersed into into the industry and how they work with it Matt Egan

takes a certain sort of person, right? And like, you know, I think about my own career as a journalist, like my early career was spent as as a production sub editor, so you really got deep into every part of the process, kind of thing.

And I think, I think that's like, a really useful grounding. But also, I'm interested Aaron, because. Us, you know, I suspect we're of a similar age. And, you know, I went to college having never used a computer, right? It was, it was feasible to do that.

And actually, my roommate in my first year, who's very good friend of mine, he was a computer science student. But it was possible. So it's possible for both things to be true. Kind of thing like to have literally never.

I once pulled his computer cable out of the wall when he asked me to switch his computer off, because I just didn't know. And I'm, I'm interested in, you know, by the time you got to college, right? Computer science was the thing for you.

Like, what started that fire burning? Like, what was it that made you you want to go in that direction? Do you think, Aaron Momin

Yeah, I'd love to, you know, my first computer was, it was, was a compact, you know, it was an x3 86 computer.

I really enjoyed, you know, taking it apart, putting that together, you know, just looking at different parts, then your networking interface card, you know, your hard drives and kind of daisy chaining them.

And, you know, I was, you know, when I first got in that computer, I was playing around with it, and I just, it just really intrigued me, and got me really interested.

And so, you know, that, that that was it, you know, once, once I got my hands dirty, I wanted more. So interesting. Matt Egan

How cool as well, right? That, that it was that kind of instant thing.

And then I guess, having that role at Coopers right in the early days, again, I'd like to pick at this a little bit, but, but being able to go technical really early on and learn, learn the thing, learn the industry, learn the craft in that level of detail, was that the point at which you were kind of like, Yeah, this is, for me, this is the industry I'm gonna gonna work in.

Yeah, Aaron Momin absolutely.

I mean, I love being hands on, you know, obviously, through my career progression, I'm less technical now, because I manage teams to help me deliver. But earlier on in the career, it was just, you know, just having the experience of touching different things, deploying different things.

I've also done a bit about a bunch of, you know, physical pen testing work as well. And I think, you know, I really enjoyed that aspect of of of the profession as you know, how can we break things? How can I figure out vulnerabilities I don't, you know?

And just, just to, just to give that kind of sense, yeah, yeah. Got me really excited, kind of thinking out of the box, right? And and understanding that side of the world. So, so, so that was really interesting to me. Matt Egan

So I'm interested in this progression as well, right? Because, again, I think, I think there are multiple paths open to everybody, but you do tend to find that with people who are really getting their hands dirty and understand the thing indeed. So there's two paths, right?

There is the becoming the expert at doing the thing, and then there's the leadership path, right? And they're not always kind of compatible, but you have moved on to some pretty significant senior leadership roles.

I'm interested in how kind of that transition went, and at what point you thought, you know, I want, I want not just to be doing, I want to be leading. Aaron Momin Absolutely.

I think, you know, I think it comes with experience. It comes with working with different people and managing different people. And there's also the soccer and business side of the skills you have to kind of learn, right?

So, so I grew up being very technical, but as as I, you know, progressed my career is just really understanding the people aspect of the business, right? And I also find that very interesting is being able to mentor, you know, other folks.

And I've mentored a significant number of people in my career and and I found that, you know, I can be a good leader, and that I actually enjoy, you know, translating technical concepts to the business, to to our senior leaders, to our, you know, board of directors and so on is, you know, I get excited about talking about, you know, here are the vulnerable exposures, and what does that mean to our business, right?

And so being able to do that, you know, it takes a certain kind of, you know, skill and take certain kind of experience to be able to to be able to do that.

And I think I found myself, you know, having that, you know, kind of tactical ability to be able to do that.

So, so at some point, kind of midway through my career, you know, I decided to focus more on on the people aspect of things, and kind of really being hung, hungry to take on more and more, you know, mentees, if you will, and just really kind of, you know, guiding people through their journeys.

Matt Egan

Yeah, I mean, and that speaks to the empathy answer you gave, like right at the top, you know, you have to enjoy other people to to be in leadership role.

And I love what you talked about there, about being able to translate, because that is so much, that is the key to so much success. The IT strategy should be the business strategy, right?

But like, but like you, you know, technical people have to be able to explain in a clear but non patronizing way what it means for the business I'm interested in. You know, you talk, you've spoken a lot, and I really.

Leave that, you know, you you buy into that mentor thing, and you've been a great mentor. But I presume at some stage along the line here, you've been helped yourself by by by by bosses, by mentors.

I wonder if you could speak something about like the first great boss you recall, and what they did for you or with you, Aaron Momin absolutely.

I mean, I think, you know, early, very early on my career, you know, working, you know, through PwC, you know, I, you know, one of my mentors, you know, told me to pay attention to detail, right at that time, you know, just wanted to kind of play with different tools and and and products.

And, you know, I wasn't really that detail oriented in terms of documenting things, right? So, so I was told, hey, when you summarize things and when you want to present something, or what do you want to, kind of get your story across, pay attention to details.

Like everything matters in how you kind of message something, how you explain something.

And, you know, it took me a, you know, a lot of time to understand how that works, to tell my story correctly, because before it was just kind of scatter thoughts come coming across, you know, across the board, but you know, my, my first boss, essentially, really helped me, you know, kind of get my act together, being able to document things correctly, paying attention to very, you know, details and kind of how you word things.

You know, how you articulate things, down to the font sizes, how you present things, right? Presentation is everything right?

You could have a good story, but if you don't present it in a good way, you know, whether it's visually or even if it's written, you may not get across the message the way you wanted to.

So I think, I think that really, you know, gave me good guiding lessons to to just kind of, you know, engage with Matt Egan

people in a good way, yeah, well, and I think that's true of, it must be true of every profession, right, that there are many people who are talented, but it's that talent applied to the discipline, the attention to detail, The effort, frankly, because, you know, you said it like, it's cool if you can do it, but if you can't do it in a way that is documented and communicated to other people, it's all matter kind of thing.

And then so all of these things come together. You know, you you've clearly a super smart guy, you've built connections with people, because that's something that inspires you. You're a high achiever, you're driving hard, you've got the technical expertise. Was there a was there a change?

Was there a job change, or even, like, a role change, that kind of really set you up for where you are? Is there a first kind of promotion that you can think of that kind of set you on the path? Aaron Momin

Yeah, I think, you know, again, going, or going back to early in my career, you know, had started out internally within Coopers, and as we kind of merge into PwC, I started to do more, you know, client facing roles, right from a consulting and a delivery perspective.

And I really enjoyed that.

So I was, you know, there's a period of time where I was kind of dabbling on both is, doing a lot of internal work and investigative work, deployment work, but then I started to do more consulting, live engagements, you know, obviously working for a consulting provider like PWC, and so, you know, that's when I made the effectual switch.

Is, hey, I really like to be client facing, because, as I mentioned before, right? You know, I enjoy working with people. I like to learn everybody's story. I find myself good in front of, you know, our clients.

And so I officially, kind of pivoted towards being very consulting driven, and that exposed me to all these new opportunities, and also a lot of travel. I enjoy traveling, you know, traveling across the globe.

My first largest project was actually in Finland, Helsinki and and, you know, they had called me on a Friday, say, Hey, can you be in Helsinki? You You know, over the weekend, we need you there. Monday, wow. And so, you know, I find that really cool.

You know, at that time, I was young and, you know, hungry and ready to learn. So I think, you know, that was a kind of pivotal switch to being and it's a different world.

Consulting is a different world, yeah, and, and that, that was, you know, I think that really changed my whole career or trajectory. Matt Egan

How cool I'm interested. I have to ask, what time of year was it when you got sent to Finland over a weekend? Yeah, Aaron Momin

no, it was over the summer. It wasn't winter yet. Unfortunately, yes, it would have Matt Egan

been a very different experience if it was in the depth of winter. But it's interesting how these things play together, because that's, I think the client facing thing is another really key part of of career development.

If you want your career to take in the senior leadership role like you've got to have the technical chops, you've got to understand the strategy. You have to really run towards and embrace working with different different people and helping them to succeed and supporting and leaning.

But you also have to understand what the. Product is and to the customers at the end of the day. And very few super successful people don't have that in their kind of their locker. So this is super interesting, Aaron, and I'm really enjoying hearing about your successes.

But on this show, we don't allow our guests just to talk about the good things. We find it more interesting to dive into the bad stuff, right? So Section two is where we talk about first fails, because we believe we learn more from our mistakes.

And so I would really like to hear, if you don't mind, Aaron, about what you would consider to be your first big mistake professionally. Aaron Momin Yeah.

I mean, I would say that kind of looking back in retrospect, right? Just making sure that you know, especially as being an IT or security professional, that you know, we don't work in a vacuum, you know.

And I think it's too often that, you know, technologists tend to work in that capacity as, Hey, I've been assigned to do X, Y, Z, let me go and do that, you know, from a technical perspective, you know, and and it's really important to have good collaboration.

It's important to have, you know, set your expectations with the stakeholders and other folks they're working with, and not kind of operate in that vacuum.

So I've had instances where, you know, I've done that, and I've learned the hard way that, you know, that's not always the best strategy is, because there's a lot of there could be a lot of misunderstandings, expectations not set correctly.

And so I kind of figure that out the hard way, but I figure also quickly in terms of, hey, you know, just collaborate with other people, make sure the expectations set correctly, and then kind of, you're moving towards a common goal, right?

So I'm kind of generalizing it, but I think, you know, I learned that, you know, and then I apply that today and in practice is, you know, making sure I'm not just kind of off on my own, you know, doing things kind of solo, but it's really important to kind of team together, have that partnership, making sure that you're also pulling from other talent, getting different perspectives to help you succeed, right?

Yeah. And I think, you know, by having those partnerships, by helping building those bridges, I think, I think that's the key to success, is it? And not just kind of going Matt Egan at all, yeah?

No, I completely, and actually use the word there that I thought I was thinking all the way through. You said perspective. I was thinking perspective and context, right? And I think this is not unique to it, although it can be a really critical thing within it.

But like, if you at any level are doing the thing because we've been told to do the thing, ticking the box, hitting that KPI, but that activity isn't aligned with the broader mission, and I mean mission very specifically, rather than strategy or tactic of the organization, like we're not succeeding, right?

And we all, we've all experienced in our lives the person from the other department in the organization who wants things to work a certain way, and, and, but you know that it isn't going to support your piece and, and I think it is, is so much the skeleton and the lifeblood of organizations.

It's so critically important that, you know, before we put a spade in the ground, we understand, if this really is where we want to dig, kind of thing that that empathy and that communication, that ability to kind of translate to the business operative, what's happening here, and get to a good consensus around how we move forward is, is, is a real, really positive thing, but it's a mistake I think, I suspect every successful person's made, right?

You know, they plowed ahead with what we knew to be the right thing, but it may not have been the right thing for everybody at that time, Aaron Momin kind of, yeah.

And I think the key thing there to your point also is expectations, right? I think, you know, it sounds straightforward, sounds like a given thing, but just making sure that everybody's aligned with what's expected, you know, what's the goal of what you're trying to achieve?

Yeah, and then also along the way, it's not as much and done, kind of discussion, right? It's kind of along the way, you know, are we going around the right? Are we going in the right path? Are we doing the right things?

Is this way expect to be like, you know, are we achieving the results like? Because having that dialog is, is monumental. I think, yeah, to Matt Egan

completely agree that's that's why I very deliberately chose the word mission, right?

Because, you know, strategies change, tactics should change all the time, as we course correct, but we should have a mission which will change, but like not very often, because it's, it's where we're headed, and making sure everything aligns together is, is something that I think successful leaders are good at, but it's, but it is a lesson we all have to learn.

And I think along similar terms, one of the questions I love asking, because we we get very varied answers, including like, this hasn't happened yet, but was there a first time that you realized something you thought you knew might actually be wrong? Aaron Momin Yeah, no.

Again, this comes back to expectations. You know, one of the projects I was working on was to not to get too technical, but to deploy a kind of. Load balanced firewall into into an environment.

And, you know, from the outset, the expectations weren't set correctly, because what that project was intended to do, you know, wasn't going to produce the right outcomes. But we didn't know that initially. And I kind of went down that path of deploying this load balance firewall.

And in those days, and we're talking in the late 90s, early 2000s you know, that was new technology. And so, you know, I was set out to do this work. And by the way, you know, that work was, you know, predominantly taking place in a data center.

So I was sitting inside a data center for like, days and weeks in a row just kind of deploying this, stuff, and it's not, you know, for those that have worked in cold data centers, it's not the most enjoyable, memorable.

But anyway, so coming back to the question, you know, you know, as I'm going along, this project, I realized that, you know, just the way the applications work in the background, this load balance firewall wasn't the right solution because it was new technology, and because of the way the application work in the back end, it wasn't the right solution.

So as I was going down that path, I quickly realized that this is not going to work out well. So it's kind of like, you know, putting this kind of square peg in a round hole, so to speak, right?

So, so I had to kind of backtrack, you know, work with our, you know, management and stakeholders to talk about, you know, what some alternatives could be. It took a lot of level setting.

You know, there were some hard conversations to be had, you know, why are we where we are? But, you know, that's when I kind of realized that, you know, something was wrong, and it requires a good amount of transparency.

I think lessons learned from that, from that story, is, you know, transparency is huge, right? Let's be transparent of what went wrong to begin with. What are we doing to course correct, and what do we make sure that doesn't happen again? Right?

So, you know, that kind of experience was, you know, what was definitely a learning Matt Egan

experience for me, yeah, for sure. And such a key learning, right? And an old boss of mine always used to say, you know, the hard conversation is the conversation you have to have, like, soonest, right, the one you're worried about having.

And, you know, I can imagine in that scenario, like the dawning realization that the solution we're pursuing is not the right solution.

Nobody is going to be happy when you say that, but you have to say it, and the sooner you say it, the better for everybody kind of thing. So, so a key learning, okay, amazing. Thank you, Aaron. And this is, this is a wonderful conversation.

I'm really enjoying it. We would like to move on to our next section now, which we call quick fire first, because we really want to get to want to get to know you behind beyond your professional veneer. We want to find out about the real person.

And the way we do that is we outsource to a little bit of patented technology we've got, which is our random question generator. So Aaron, if you would, could you please pick a number between one and, let's say 14. How about eight? Eight, number eight.

Ah, okay, you talked about travel, and we heard about your Finland adventures. And this question is the first place you would go if time and money were no object. Aaron Momin

Oh, I would say, without a doubt, it would be Iceland. You know, I just really, I've been there a number of times.

It is an amazing private place, especially if you're into outdoors, like exploring, yeah, it's just a phenomenal place with the picturesque landscapes and a lot of different experiences. I would say, hands down, it would be Iceland that's Matt Egan

cool, and looks like you couldn't be anywhere else on the earth, right? When you're when you're out in Iceland, which is cool. Tell me about, you talk about, you know, liking to be outdoors. Is that, you know, are you out there, sort of hiking around?

Is it, is it the wildlife, the combination of all of the above? Yeah, Aaron Momin

I think it's combination of all the above, right? And in particular, I mean, in that story, but about Iceland, you know, just kind of seeing some of the dormant volcanoes, seeing the natural, you know, terrain, kind of having that experience, is just, it's just phenomenal.

It's really unique place in the world. It Matt Egan is, it is.

That's a very cool answer, and also not one we've had before, although I I'm not sure I'd be top of my list, but I think, but I definitely share that, that viewpoint, we should go together. It'd be great.

Let's try for another one, then another number between one and 14, please. Aaron, yeah, how about five? Number five? Ah, could you tell me anything about your your first or the first childhood friends that you remember? Aaron Momin Yeah, no, absolutely.

So, you know, I actually grew up in India, and I was born and raised in India and immigrated to the United States in sort of the mid 80s. But absolutely, I remember living in Mumbai, you know, which is one of the largest cities. And, yeah.

And, you know, I have some good fun memories of, you know, couple of friends that we grew up with, and we learned how to ride a bicycle and things like that. So that's been, you know, kind of nostalgic.

Always stuck out in my mind is, is, is it whole experience? But no, we've stayed in touch.

So kind of just, yeah, just just seeing where, you know, where we've gone in our in our professional life, and also in a person I was, you know, I've stayed in touch with, with these friends.

And actually I was, I was out in India not too long ago, and actually visited him, and just to kind of know what he's up to, and, you know, getting to know his family more in detail, and so just in touch with you know, who you know, and network is.

My point is, it's phenomenal to start at a very basic intimate level with your friends or your family members and people you meet to people you meet in your profession, but just building that network of those kinds of people is paramount, because you never know, you know whom you run across, where and when, but just having that network is critical to your your personal development, and also, obviously, a professional perspective Matt Egan as well.

Definitely, I mean, life is other people, right? And you know, like, I always think you'll never, you're never unhappy when someone gets in touch, right?

Like, it's always, it's always a net positive and, and that's, you know, we're a species that likes to run in packs, and it's really important to make those connections.

But I will also say there's a reason why we ask these questions, Aaron, and, you know, like, you just drop in there that you grew up in India and then moved from India to the United States in the mid 80s, which I'm imagining was a, was a fairly decent culture shock.

Aaron Momin

It was, it certainly was. It certainly was. But, you know, I think, you know, it's being adaptive, all right? And those people, you know, I love immersing myself in different cultures, you know, I'm very globally traveled.

And, you know, I, you know, and then that's the thing about me, is, you know, no matter where I am, I adjust and I adapt.

And for me, you know, the migration to the US, you know, was, you know, was, I wouldn't say, with difficult or challenging thing, it was very intriguing, and you know, and certainly, you know, certainly evolved quite, you know, quite a bit, you know, with the move.

So, yeah, Matt Egan

they say, all data shows that children who are brought up with two languages in their household tend to have better outcomes. And there's two theories to it, right?

One is because, in any case, if you've been taught one, if you've been taught two languages, you definitely have the support to learn like one language, so you're probably doing better than, you know, the family where that support isn't there.

But another, more intriguing theory, which I tend to subscribe to, is you've immediately got two different concepts. You know, the French word for kitchen is cuisine. Cuisine means something very different to kitchen in the way that an English or American person would say it.

And that immediately just broadens your your mind to the fact that there's a whole different set of concepts.

So I have to presume, like being in Mumbai, and by the way, learning to ride a bike in Mumbai, I mean, like I've tried to cross the road, that's pretty scary. Aaron Momin

Yeah, if you can ride or even drive a car in India, I mean, I think you could drive anywhere, yeah, right. It's extremely stressful. Matt Egan

But having that view of the world and the US view of the world immediately is kind of, you know, to someone who's open minded as you clearly are that that's, that's kind of a superpower as well, really, in a way, yeah, amazing.

I was my, my father's family moved from Ireland to the UK in the in the 50s, and he still remembers the first time he saw an elevator. It absolutely blew his mind, because anything like that. So, yeah, that's amazing. So amazing.

And I'm so glad we asked that question, because you never know what you're going to get when you ask these silly questions. Let's move in Section four, which the final section of the show, sadly, Aaron, we call this first and final thoughts.

And I'm excited to ask you, you know, what's the first piece of advice you would give to someone who's just starting out? Yeah? Aaron Momin

I mean, you know, everybody wants to get into cyber. It's such an intriguing and interesting field. And I get that question a lot of times from a lot of you know, folks and friends, you know, in my network. And I would say, you know, definitely know your basics.

You know, from a technology perspective, right? It's really, you know, if you want to get into cybersecurity, you have to understand how the internet works. You know, how TCPIP works. And you know, you what is the interconnectedness like?

So it's really important to, you know, know, your basics in terms of, you know, what is a PC? What are the different components of it? You know, you know, how do you how does networking work? And understanding those. Basic foundational aspects is, I think it's critical.

Not everybody tends to be technical, and you may not need to be technical within cyber. But having said that, it's, in my opinion, it's still good to start off in that kind of learnings, and then you can kind of go beyond that.

And if you don't wish to take stay technical, I think that's fine, too, but I think it's really important to understand those basics. So I think that's that's there. The second part, I would say is, you know, do not discount learning the softer side of things, right?

Your softer skills, or business skills, because oftentimes, you know, a lot of folks getting into the field are so excited about learning things about security that tend to forget about the business side of the world.

And, yeah, you know, I think it's really important to kind of balance out the trainings and learnings with understanding, you know, how to speak the language of the business. Yeah, how do we communicate to other stakeholders or to your executives?

And kind of learning the soccer skills as well. So I would just say that definitely don't discount, you know, the soccer side of the skills that you need to develop, but I think to have a good balance, I think would be key. Matt Egan

I think that's excellent advice, frankly, in any industry. Again, like I think back, you know, when I first started out working for the organization I work for now, I was the product print production editor of a magazine about desktop computers, right?

None of those things exist anymore, but, but the basics, the mechanics of understanding how the whole business works from top to bottom, like me, means that you're then able to speak. You have to understand things change, and yet, none of those skills that I had are required anymore.

But the the fundamental understandings of how things work, they don't change. They're super important. But also, to your point, you can be, like we talked about this before, right? You can be the most technical expert on a thing. And actually, that is fine. It's limiting, but it's fine.

Like, you know, there are lead developers at organizations who are the only people in the world who fully understand how to make something work, and that's incredibly valuable. But if you want to lead and if you want to influence strategy, you need to be able to translate them.

I talked about my, my roommate at college like he's had a very successful career because he was, he would tell himself he was never the best developer, but he understood how to speak to the business about what they would have exactly and create solutions rather than, Aaron Momin it's a part.

It's a partnership, right? It's, you know, coming back to what we said earlier, is, you know, having that bridge, having the collaboration partnership, being able to speak the language of the business. It's, you know, we're all humans, right?

And I think it's you know, it's you know, we need to have that ability to communicate, to get on the same page, that those expectations. So I think, I think it's, it's critical to be able to collaborate, and as I said before, not work in a vacuum, right?

And so just being able to, you know, communicate and get your message across is critical. Matt Egan

Yeah, no, I completely agree. I completely agree. Aaron, I'm sad to say this, we're reaching the end of our time together, and I feel like we could talk for hours.

Maybe we'll do it again sometime, but our only non first question is quite an open question, but I'm interested to ask you this. You know, would you have any final thoughts that you want to share with our audience today? Aaron Momin Yeah.

I mean, I think you know this might apply to, you know, any, any industry, really, but for cyber in particular, I think it's critical that everybody stays hyper connected to what's happening out there, right? The pace of how cybersecurity moves is at light speed, right?

What happens, you know, you know, today will be history. It's about tomorrow.

So it's, it's really important for cyber security professionals to be, you know, super connected to what's happening in the threat landscape, to understand new emerging technologies, to understand different perspectives, to understand what our other stakeholders are working on, whether it's within privacy or whether it's within legal or whether it's within the business.

So be hyper connected. Find ways. There's definitely tools out there that you can use to stay connected, to be informed. You know, whether it's RSS feeds or social media or what have you I think it's, it's super critical.

Definitely carve out, you know, some time in the day to read up on things, right, to be connected, expand your network. As I mentioned before, you know, networking is paramount, right? So keep building your network, just on a daily basis, right? It doesn't have to be professional.

It couldn't even be in your personal life, and just go out there.

You could be in a grocery store, you know, shopping for food, and you might bump into somebody, but that bumping into somebody could turn into something you know, in the future that you know you haven't planned on.

So I think, you know, my final thoughts there are just to be super connected. Keep thinking about networking, and stay abreast of what's happening in the industry, by all means, Matt Egan

yeah, it's really great advice. I mean, it's about, in essence, it's, it's take yourself and take take the craft and the work seriously. But also, and I absolutely love that point about the network and where you meet people, you know, it's amazing.

I, you know, I could speak to myriad times of like, doing activities. I. Side of professional life, being a school governor, being a soccer coach, where, like, you connect with people, and then who knows where that goes, kind of thing.

And I'll find myself later on reflecting of the impact on my professional life. Even if the connection itself isn't specifically related to work, I've picked up something. I've developed something. Yeah, it's life is pretty sweet when you take that approach. I think, yes, absolutely I agree.

Thank you so much.

My thanks to Aaron moment and thank you for watching and listening to this show, first person, the show where we meet the most interesting people in it and learn from them what makes them tick, focusing only on their first I think you'll agree that was a great conversation.

Aaron Momin

I've been thank you so much for your time. Matt Egan

Yeah, thank you, Aaron. And yeah, I've enjoyed it so much. I've been your host, Matt Egan, and I ask all of you viewers and listeners to enjoy, like and subscribe wherever you find us.

And if you're an interesting person in it, do let us know, because you can be the next first person. But obviously I have to finish by giving my sincere thanks to Aaron. Aaron Momin, thank you so much. And goodbye. Transcribed by https://otter.ai